Ep. 44: How Niko Labendeira Went From a Weight Loss Journey to a 3:28 Marathon

SPEAKER_00 0:00

That's what's gonna change you. It's supposed to be hard. And then just reminding myself that that has a purpose and that big things come from that. That's what helps me get through those sessions. And that's what helped me get through that last mile of that half marathon. Was that was the mantra I kept telling myself is this is an all-out race effort. It is supposed to be hard. You know, and and just reminding myself that yes, this is uncomfortable. That is by design because I'm trying to do something I've never done before and I'm trying to grow from this. And and I I find a lot of solace in that. And just knowing that we can be okay with being uncomfortable, we can work through that, that our mind is super powerful, our bodies are and that will drive our bodies to be super powerful. You know, I you can't fake fitness, you have a ceiling, obviously, and everything like that. I can't just go out there and go run a 120 half marathon right now, but I can keep chipping away, doing all the things that I can to improve.

SPEAKER_02 0:57

Welcome back to Through There's Truck. I'm your host, Sam Sutton, and today I'm joined by California-based runner Nico Labandero. Nico has been running since 2020 and initially used it as a way to lose weight and get back into shape after life had kind of taken its toll and did what life does to most of us. But quickly he found out that he was actually pretty good at the sport. He ran his first marathon just on his roads in his backyard in 2025 and ran a 349. Shortly after that, a few months later, he ran a 328, taking over 20 minutes off of his previous time. He's now chasing a 310 this fall in California and just wants to see how far he can take it. He's also using the sport as a way to uh influence and motivate his kids and even his wife to take on new challenges and do hard things themselves. And they've actually become a little bit of runners. And his son is even a little bit of a triathlon athlete. So he's got a pretty interesting story. This is really fun for me to record. I can't wait for you guys to hear it. And uh, if you enjoy it, please share it with a friend. Hopefully, this can motivate somebody else to uh start taking challenges on themselves. And without further ado, let's get into it. All right, welcome back to Through Their Stride. And uh today I'm joined by Nico and is it uh Labandera? Is that correct? Labandera, yeah. Labandera, awesome. So Nico, I've been uh following you for a while. You're currently in a marathon build, is that correct?

SPEAKER_00 2:27

Yeah, two out of 24 weeks. I'm doing a long build this time around, so just finished week two.

SPEAKER_02 2:32

Awesome. Yeah, same thing. I actually I'm I got 23 weeks left uh of my build. So putting a lot of uh lot of time between now and then to hopefully hit my goal. What's the goal that you're going for right now?

SPEAKER_00 2:44

I think I want to commit to three hours, 10 minutes, sub three ten. That's what I'm looking at doing.

SPEAKER_02 2:49

Awesome. Uh and do you have a race pickup?

SPEAKER_00 2:52

Yeah, it's gonna be two cities marathon uh in Fresno, California. Uh Fresno and Clovis, that's why they call it two cities. Um a smaller one, it takes place the same day as the New York Marathon every year, so it's definitely dwarfed by uh one of the world marathon majors. But uh we actually get some pretty cool people that show up too. Um CJ Albertson happens to be local, so uh yeah, he he actually teaches at the community college. He teaches, I believe, track and field. Oh yeah, maybe across the country. I'm not 100% certain, but I know he's local. Uh he paces like the 230 group every year. Um his brother as well, and actually Connor Mance ran it last year with his wife, Kathy Mance, and her marathon debut.

SPEAKER_02 3:36

Yeah, paced her to her uh to her debut.

SPEAKER_00 3:38

That was that was pretty awesome. I didn't know that was that race. That was that race. Uh so I I ran that, uh definitely not with that crowd. Uh, but um I was there, and then now we're learning that she was pregnant when she ran that. And um pretty amazing. But yeah, two cities marathon in Fresno and Clovis, California. Underrated, flat, flat, fast course, um, and my hometown course. And Kylie's as well. That's why she chose that. Um, it's her hometown too.

SPEAKER_02 4:04

Cool. So this seems like a little area of runners then.

SPEAKER_00 4:07

Yeah, I did I didn't know it. I got into running later in life and then realized that we had connections to a couple of uh elite runners.

SPEAKER_02 4:15

That's awesome. Well, so you just mentioned that you got into running a little later. I've so I've been following you since last January when I saw your kind of like your uh live posting of your first marathon, just kind of in your backyard on threads, and then I followed you on Instagram and what have you. Um, and so uh I'm pretty familiar with your story, but can you kind of introduce yourself for my listeners?

SPEAKER_00 4:37

Yeah, so I mentioned I got into running late. I really got into it in two different times. And please excuse um the background, probably not your typical runner's room background. This is my wife's side of the bed, and she collects Pokemon stuffies. So my journey first started before we got married, actually. Um, when we first started dating, put on some happy weight. We were eating good, going out, and we knew we had a wedding coming up, so I wanted to get in shape. I picked up exercise. Um, not specifically running for weight loss. I was strength training with some running thrown in as well. Um, I was using kind of the Nike apps, uh, Nike training. I think they had two at the time, and now it's condensed down to one, but one was more strength than various workout focused, and one was run run club. Um and I did that, I stayed committed. I used lose it to track my calories in, calories out, and drop down to a weight that I wanted. And I I just really briefly got into running, and I had gotten up to about a 25-ish minute 5k. And I thought it was flying, you know, like this. I was new to this, and I uh yeah, I'm holding eight-minute miles for three miles. I didn't know people ran past three miles, really. Like, I knew there were marathons and things like that, but I didn't think just your average person could like was regularly running that distance. Yeah, and things sure have changed over the past few years. Uh in 2023, uh, so that was 2019. After that, everything went crazy and everything was shut down, and uh, we actually had a son. Um wow, and so became a father kind of in that window as well. Yeah. And um just life happened and I fell out of shape again and actually worsened the first time. And I'd gotten up to my heaviest weight and um was not comfortable in my body anymore. I wasn't moving well. Things like tying my shoes, bending over to do that. I just was not comfortable in my own body. Um it was uncomfortable. And so I wanted to take take care of myself and I wanted to be a better role model for my kids and model an active, healthy lifestyle for them. And so I started putting in the work. And uh, we actually had another son. Uh, it was when our second son was born that I actually really started kicking into gear. It was maybe when she was six months postpartum. Um, and I had enough and I knew I needed to make some changes for myself. And so from there in 2023, um, I decided I'm gonna get back into tracking what I eat, I'm gonna start working out again. I was getting Apple Fitness Plus, and I wanted to start running again. I was really proud of being able to run a 5k before, um, and I wanted to get back up to that. And trying to rebuild to a single mile, shin splints, pinar fasciitis, um, posterior tubular tendinitis. And so I'm like, okay, I'm going to physical therapy. So I I did that and then um worked on some things, some strength that would help support the tendons and everything, so I could get back to it. In January 2024, that's really where my this current um running segment of my life started. Okay. Um I graduated from physical therapy, they allowed me to reintroduce some running, um, and I just slowed it way down and actually looked into where a beginner should start. And carrying the extra weight was obviously a factor as well, because it really is hard. And I there are big winners, and you can be a runner and be big. And for me, my body did not respond to it very well though. Um, and so it created a lot of tendency uh stress. And so I slowed things way down. And instead of trying to run those eight-minute miles that I was before, I took it way back and I was running 11, 12-minute miles. Um, and my body responded really well and I was able to build up. And the first time I did like an intentional, what I thought was zone two, just using kind of the the default heart rate zones uh in Apple's fitness app. Um, the first time I did that for a 5k, I felt amazing. Yeah, really good. And uh I the next weekend was like, I'm gonna double it. And I just went and did a 10k. And I shouldn't have at that point, I should have worked up to a little bit the uh slower, but I just felt good. And then I I thought I was like, I just ran six miles. I can't believe it. And and to me, that was a marathon, you know, that was amazing. I've never ran the distance in my life, and yes, I had slowed it way down, but I just covered six miles, that was huge. Um, and then from there, yeah, I spent that summer of 2023 just at that point I did start sticking to some like 10% rules, things like that, because I didn't want to end up injured again and not able to run. So that 10k was kind of my starting point, and from there I just extended the long run 10% or roughly each week, sometimes a D load or cutback week. Um, I kept the strength training in there, um, and it was running three days a week, strength training three days a week, sprinkling in some yoga and mobility and things like that. Um I started feeling really good in my body again, and the weight was coming off. Um, and I decided to sign up for my first race, and that was to Siddhus Marathon. It was a half marathon distance that year though, that I did in 2024. And um oh, it was it was incredible. I was just looking forward to that training to it. I actually trained up to about the half marathon distance that October, early October, I got sicker than I ever had in my life. Oh no, and it terrified me because the race was coming up November 3rd, I believe it was that year. Um worst sickness I'd ever gotten. And um Yeah, I I just I was bedridden. I couldn't move really much for about a week, and um I just once I started feeling better, I finally started getting out the door, um moving, and I I did kind of a progressive re-upload was three weeks till race day. So my long run the first week was like a six-mile run, and then the next week was a nine-mile run. And then the week before the race, I basically ran the race. Like I had a half marathon, which I I didn't know as much about like tapers and stuff back then. Um, but and and I followed the route that was like uh in the GPX file. So I'd found it and was like, okay, I'm just gonna kind of roughly follow it so I know the course map. Um and I my original goal was a sub two hour half marathon, and um in training I did like an hour 57 that day at a kind of a low effort, lower intensity effort. And so like, you know what? Let's bring that down. I'm gonna go out for an hour 50. So I went out for that pace, and I was kind of right on track through the first half, and I was still feeling really good. Uh-huh. Um, so I just picked it up, and uh um I actually kind of took a video right at the midway mark for that as well. And um I remember saying it was on pace for like an hour forty-seven and some change, and I could see the hour 45 in my sights, and so I just wanted to move, and so I did it, and I finished an hour 4457, and nice. I mean, I was emotional that race, like I couldn't believe that I had done that, and um it taught me a lot about myself and what we're capable of, and uh really fell in love with it and uh created new goals for the following year. Um and now I'm just participating in a lot more races. I basically have it designed where I'm doing one spring A race, one fall A race, and I'm doing a ton of little B races sprinkled in, ranging from two miles up to the half marathon for the B races. Oh sorry. Um it's okay. I'm a Doxy owner too. We've got two weeny dogs in our house. She's been bugs.

SPEAKER_02 12:17

Yeah, she's brand new, so she's been uh kind of a feisty little one, but I think she'll calm down.

SPEAKER_00 12:22

But continue. No, she's adorable, she's adorable. Um, my yeah, and then my next race after that was uh Yosemite half marathon, and I followed a pretty good training block for that. And I wanted to hit sub an hour 40 in that half. Okay. Um, very downhill course. Uh, you start up higher towards Yosemite, you drop down towards it's called Bass Lake. It's like you drop like a mile over the course of the race. It's crazy. I did not know how that was gonna affect Mike Wads. That was wild.

SPEAKER_01 12:49

Um, I did not such a different it's such a different race. Like it's a style of racing.

SPEAKER_00 12:55

Yeah, my neighborhood is flat as a pancake. Well, actually, before that, that's when I did the marathon where you found me. Yeah. So, okay, two two cities half marathon. That was November, January 25th. I just kept extending the long run to the point where I'd gone to 18, 20 miles by January. Um, and I just committed to a day and I just designed my own aid station really in my front yard on my driveway. And um, I had water dilute or Gatorade diluted with water at a handful of uh humigels and um was just gonna route my or uh loot my 5k route uh about eight and a half times until my watch that I hit 26.2. So I went out and I did that. Yeah, and um it went remarkably well for a first marathon. Um yeah on a real course, I probably wouldn't have hit the time that I did because there's always your tangents and things like that, you're not hitting them perfectly, so it probably would have been a little bit later. But according to my watch, that one was like a 149 or sorry, a 349, uh, and I think like 40 something seconds.

SPEAKER_02 13:58

Yeah. So when I when I saw that pop up, when I saw you kind of running it, I you know went autodoc to part one just to kind of like follow it from the beginning to end. And uh I think you had said somewhere in there that you were like you didn't want to do a race until you knew you could do sub four. Um, and then you hit 349. And to to be able to do it, but not only do it, but actually do it in a very respectable time. What was that feeling like for you in that moment?

SPEAKER_00 14:28

Oh gosh. Um I was incredibly proud and and just thankful for my butt what my body's capable of at that time. Um, there was just a big sense of pride, and uh four hours was the goal, and I just I didn't want to wait for a race, and I also didn't want to get out onto a race course and bonk and fail miserably, even though that's part of the experience, which I have done that as well. So uh I'll I'll get to that race. Um and uh so I just I went out and did, and I think part of it, I know the race environment can help a lot of people perform better. For this, there was zero pressure, and it was just keep moving until you're done. Um and I think I train solo, I love run clubs, but I just don't have the opportunity as a father. I try to not be away from the house or make it as my kids know that I train a lot, but I do it at times when they're asleep. So maybe they'll wake up and be up for 30 minutes or something, and then I'll come in the door all sweaty. And um so they know they know what's happening, but I don't try to take time from them and do it. And so I just I performed really well in that subtle environment. Uh and I think part of it was I know this isn't like a USATF course, you know, like it's just one of those things, just go do it. And so I did, and I felt really good the whole way through. And I actually think I per I pay someone better than I did my first uh actual marathon race. Um yeah, so I mentioned Yosemite, uh that one came just short of my goal of 140-40. I finished 140 46. Um I learned a lot about hills on that one and the elevation and how hard that would be. That sent me back a bit because I did get runner's knee from the massive downhill on that one. Uh, that was my first time getting that. Yeah. So I killed all speed work for a while, um, for like probably three months and just kept some volume there uh whenever my body was responding well. And then I started a uh marathon build, and I think it did an 18-week build um to Two Cities Marathon last year.

SPEAKER_04 16:31

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 16:33

And for this one, oh, I was convinced that I could go sub-320. And you got close.

SPEAKER_02 16:39

I mean, you're only eight minutes off.

SPEAKER_00 16:41

I was eight minutes off, but uh miles 22 through 25 were really rough for me. And then I bounced back a bit in 26. Um, yeah, so that was Two Cities Marathon, and that's that's my PR as of right now, it's 328-19. And I went out, I was holding the pace really well through mile 21 and hills. I train flat as a pancake. You get some rolling hills in a park called Bird Park, locally where we live, which it's funny because almost every Sunday I see CJ Albertson out there running, and he's flying. It's so amazing uh to see it to see it like elite level athletes out in the wild. Um, and so um we got there, and that's when I saw my heart rate just start to climb. And uh that was mile maybe 15, 16, and I could have slowed it down. I now that in hindsight I should have once I saw my heart rate climbing, um, but I went for pace rather than effort. Yeah. Um, and then once we got to Old Town Clovis, there's parts where you go under streets, under the highway and stuff like that, and then you've got climbs to get back up. And I think it was the second one of those that my legs were just done, and I had to walk up the hill. And so I had to alternate some run walking, um, which for that four-mile stretch brought my average face down from like 7:30 to like um 10, 10 and a half minute miles. Um and then I was able to recover a bit on mile 26, and so um I did bonk and uh I learned a lot from that race as well. Um and so it was a PR, a pretty significant PR. I still took 20 minutes off my time. Um but I know now one how important volume is. I was running, I think I peaked to like 40 41 miles in that build. Um and again, I was mixing it, I was doing some triathlon stuff at the time too. So I had a lot of cycling in there um and swim and still keeping up strength. And I learned a lot about nutrition, I think, too. Uh I targeted 60 grams per hour of carbs. Uh I did execute that, but I'm a bigger guy too. And I really think I should be in that eight between 80 and 100 grams, and so that's gonna be the strategy going forward. Um even though 310 is another 20-minute jump, I I really think it's in there with the way that it's gonna be a full year since that race. Um, I just ran a 130 half marathon, well, 128.05. Um you kicked that one's butt, man. That was awesome. Oh man, I was going in for an hour 30. That was my goal. And um super fun race. Uh, I'm competing in California Classic Events, the runner of the year series that uh for the age group, uh male 30 to 39. Oh, cool. Um, yeah, and that's actually why I'm doing so many B races in my next build as well. Um, and that was one of their races. They have races that are either 10 or 20 points. First place when your age people get you 10 or 20 points, second place nine or 19, so on until there's no more points. Um and through seven out of 17 races on the year, uh, I'm currently leading the age group by about 20 points. Nice, um, which I'm proud of. Still scared though, because we have 10 more races. I am missing one because my son has his second triathlon the same day, and it'll be out of town, and he's way more important than my hobby, and so um I'll be there supporting him. Um but and there are faster guys out there, but they usually don't show up to every race, and so uh that's one thing I mentioned. I want to model an active lifestyle for my kids, but I also want to model behaviors like consistency. And if I'm gonna win this, it's not because I'm fast. I won the age group once out of the seven races so far. Um I'm gonna win because I'm consistent and I'm showing up and I'm putting in the work, and um, that's how I'm I'm ranking up my points is by going to every race, showing up, and just doing the best that I can every single time. And so that's what I want them to learn is you know, you may not be the fastest out there in any given day, but you can be consistent and you can succeed that way.

SPEAKER_02 20:39

Yeah, I saw a uh um a reel the other day talking about that, and it's from uh actually one of my previous guests, and she said, you know, I may not be the fastest in the room, I may not be the biggest in the room, I may not be the strongest in the room, but I'm in the room. But yeah, you know, if you stay in it, like you can probably can be up there with the best of them.

SPEAKER_00 20:59

Yeah, yep. And and like I said, there are guys that are really quick, like they're already running um sub-threes all the way down to like around the 230-ish times for full marathon distances, and they're they throw these out there every once in a while just for fun. Um and so um they're they're a lot quicker than me. Um, but I want to keep showing up and I want to challenge myself, and maybe one day it will be as quick as them because one thing I've learned with running is um just the power of consistency. Um, and this is something I've been thinking about a lot is endurance sports, it's a superpower. Like to be able to go run 18 miles and then take my kids to an NFL game like a three-hour ride away. Like, but this is something that happened uh last year. And, you know, I'd wake up early, done by like 6 a.m., drive three hours, go to a football game, back to the hotels, and then we like hung out with my friend took his son as well, and we hung out till like one in the morning. And this was like an insanely long day at this point with an 18 mile run. And Like that is a superpower. And it's not a superpower because I'm doing things that people can't do. It's a superpower because you're doing the things that people most people just won't do.

SPEAKER_02 22:10

Yeah, choice not to.

SPEAKER_00 22:12

Yeah. Because I really anyone can build up to the what the marathon distance. I really think that if you're healthy, you know, like the obvious caveats, if there's medical concerns, things like that. But I think, you know, anyone of age like um where it's safe for them to run that distance, they can build up to it. They can put in the time, the effort, the consistency, and get there, but most people won't. Um and and that's the power, just the the consistency, um, showing up for yourself every day, growth and um the power of belief too. You have to know that you can do it. And on day one, you may not. Like I didn't think the marathon was ever gonna be in the cards for me. I mentioned I built up to a 5k, and I thought that wasn't an incredible distance. And for many, it it is. Um, going from couch to 5k, I'll still say the hardest part of my journey. Just I mentioned all those injuries that I had when I first started. Um, but you keep showing up, you keep having all these little wins, and they they show you that you can do it. You you can go just a bit further next time, and it just stacks up, or you can go run a little bit harder next time, and and you can learn to be a bit more comfortable with those uncomfortable feelings because it it can be very uncomfortable. The half marathon was super uncomfortable, and I actually don't think I've ever seen my heart rate that high, but I just I held on for I saw the finish line and I I knew I wasn't gonna give up at that point, and um just the power of self-talk and even the community because there were pacers, the 130 pace group. Yeah, um it's I had a negative split strategy and I executed this really well, which meant I had to catch up to them because they were gonna be trying to hit that 130 mark on the nose. Um, and so it was around mile 10 when I caught up to the 130 group. We ended up flying the next three miles. Like we like I said, we finished 128.05, and they I can tell they eased off, so I can like finish ahead of them. Um, but we finished that last mile in 613 and we ran that all together. And that is a lot, you know, that's a significant margin quicker than that pace. I think 651 or 652 is the pace that you need to um average to finish a half in uh an hour 30. And so uh having mile 13 at 613 is is wild. Yeah. And and uh incredible, but they carried me and they didn't let me like I like I told them at mile 12, I was like, I don't know if I have anything left in the tank. They're like, no, you do, and it's there's only one more mile. You have like six and a half minutes of running, and we're gonna get there. And we just we took off. And so um, yeah, I had to self-talk my way just next quarter mile, quarter mile, quarter mile, like um count it down, break it into small pieces, and have them telling me I can do it. Like it just it all came together, and so super grateful for those guys and uh really proud that I was able to hang on because that was that was hard. And I I don't know how like my goal is to eventually run a sub three full, probably November 2027 is when I'm gonna attempt that. Um that's my hope, which would be a Boston qualifier for me because I'll turn 35 next year. Oh, okay. Awesome. Yeah, I get five extra minutes.

SPEAKER_02 25:08

So love aging up.

SPEAKER_00 25:12

Yeah, and so um that's I'm shooting for 310 this year. See if I can cut realistically 15 minutes, because if I want to run Boston, you're gonna have to hit the cutoffs as well. And I'm expecting ballparking five minutes, so target 355 um in November 2027. So um that's the goal, long-term goals um with short-term markers to help me get there and everything. Um yeah, and just keep showing up. Stack training cycles. I just like I said, I wrapped up that half marathon. That was my A race for uh spring. Um, did something shorter intentionally uh because I wanted to work on some top end speed and how long I can hold that pace and everything. I had never gone sub-20 in the 5k prior to November, and so like to run mile 13 at sub-25k pace is wild to me. Like I didn't know I had that in there. And so um I'm excited just to keep building off of that and and to know that at some point I I I know it's in there and I'll run the BQ.

SPEAKER_02 26:11

Yeah, that's awesome. And you said a lot of cool things here, and uh you know, when when you started in 2023, like you said, you you got to your heaviest point, you know, life life took the toll that life does when you let it, you know, and um and you were like, I gotta get out of this. And you made that decision in 2023 just to get healthy for yourself. And then now you've gotten to experience like all of these things that you probably never even thought were possible of yourself. And so looking back on what you've accomplished, what do you what does that give you? And what does that uh what would you like to tell your previous self, your 2023 self looking back?

SPEAKER_00 26:52

So if I had to tell my old self anything, it would be just to keep showing up. Really, I believe in the power of consistency. I think that um anything we're gonna get good at what we do, whatever we choose to do in life. And um that includes running, but also showing up for yourself and for those around you. And if there's one thing I'm most proud of at this point, I think it's just watching my kids grow into uh their own hobbies and things like that as well. I mentioned my oldest son is getting in the triathlon. Um, he's wrapping up his first season, it'll be a second race next weekend, a week from today. Okay, and um he loves it. He's gonna do his first uh road race. Uh it's a two-miler on Father's Day, so that'll be his first uh running debut. Um and then after that, he wants to do his first 5k and at a one called Christmas in July. And so um for Father's Day, I'm super, super pumped. Um I'm gonna go out there, I'm gonna try to drop a really good time, and then I'm gonna run back out on the course. It's it's safe to do it, it's not like a super, super strict event. So I'm gonna go back on the course, find him, and then cross the finish line with him after.

SPEAKER_02 28:01

Awesome. Well, how old how old is he?

SPEAKER_00 28:03

Uh he just turned seven in April.

SPEAKER_02 28:06

Okay. Oh, nice.

SPEAKER_00 28:07

Yeah, and so he's he's just aging into it. Um, we've been going on a lot of cycling uh adventures together. He's gotten up to double-digit rides in that space now. Um, once he's a little bit taller, I can get him on a road bike. He's currently on kind of a kid-style hybrid bike. Um so yeah, he's told me he wants to do Iron Man's together when he's older. And so I you're gonna make sure I stay in shape at this point. He doesn't even remember me at my biggest, like it really, like he saw the change in small increments every single day, and you you don't see it the same way as you do when you see an old picture from me at my biggest, because there's 60 pounds of Nico that's not there anymore. Uh yeah, yeah, and so it's been a big change. But um, no, he won't he wants to share the course on some events, and I definitely want to do that as well. So um, and hopefully, hopefully he smokes me. Um, we'll see. Uh either way, it'll be a lot of fun. We'll probably complete them together at first as he gets into it. But if if he sticks with it through high school age and things like that, because I think your body atta adapts so well in your teenage years and your early 20s. Definitely. Um I think there's no reason he can't be well more advanced than I am uh by the time he reaches adulthood.

SPEAKER_04 29:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:21

If he wants to. Um, I want him to choose it too. I don't push it on him. He got into it because um he sees the training that I do, and we've talked about my experience with it and um how much of a positive experience it is for me. And so um he's super excited. And triathlon's the first sport. We've done baseball, t-ball, some of those common kids sports, soccer. Um, this is the first one where practice has ended, and he's come into my car and thanked me for signing in.

SPEAKER_04 29:47

Oh, wow. That's awesome.

SPEAKER_00 29:49

Yeah. And and it I can see why too. Because in the endurance sports space, no one's gonna finish your race for you. And I think there's something so special about that. On a on a team sport, and team sports are great too, collaboration's amazing. Um, at that age, there's always like a kid or a handful of kids that just dominate the field, they just take over the second you get out that you watch them, and you can just see that they're more advanced at it, whether they're older or they're uh maybe their parents share their the fundamentals um and they really worked at it together. Um, and I've tried doing that with my son. I love baseball. Um, I've actually got a baseball game on the TV over there right now. Um absolutely love baseball. Um, but it just didn't stick the same way. And um with triathlon, like there's just so much confidence that he's built, and I've seen it in the like seven or eight weeks since he's been on this club that um he's really grown and he he's they uh they have a phrase or cheer at the end of every session. Their team is called I Can. I Can Try is kind of the pun. Oh, I can try the pun. Um and um every at the end of every session, the coach will say, What does it take? And they say confidence, patience, and determination. And I think those are just great values to teach the children.

SPEAKER_02 31:06

Yeah, that's awesome. And you know, like you said, you know, consistency is key, but consistency is also contagious. And, you know, when the pe when people around you, and especially your family and your kids and your wife, because I saw your wife is also doing a little bit of running too. So to to have that kind of like rub off on them and just be like, oh, hey, I like I want to do that, I want to chase that, I want to see if I could be good at that. How does that make you feel as a father and a dad? As a husband and dad, rather. Sorry.

SPEAKER_00 31:36

Yeah, so um as a dad, I I think I spoke to that pretty well with my uh oldest son. It makes me incredibly proud um just to see how much he's grown because he brilliant child, 99th percentile in reading and math, things like that. But he was not always fantastic with his athletic ability. Um, and I've worked with him, but it just he was never the kid that was he was always risk averse, and like you know, um it was scary to him to try these things. Um and so just seeing the confidence that he's built, seeing him get out there, race, and and make hard decisions because his first race, he did get overwhelmed a bit um by the atmosphere, things like that. And again, he's a small child. Um so getting into the swim, um, he kind of locked up and froze. And they gave him they gave him an option to uh either start or to go into T1 after the last kid in his wave got out of the pool. And so he could do that, skip the swim, go to T1, get on the bike, and then finish up the race. So they accommodate the small children. Yeah. Um parents are not allowed to talk with the kids at this point, they are in the race, like it's a competitive atmosphere and like it's coordinated so the kid makes their decision. Um he chose to start with the next wave and to do the swim himself. And so he did that, and just that's like huge growth for him that he he chose to do the hard thing. Um, he says that he locked up because the water was cold when he started getting in, and it just um he said he has a hard time breathing uh when the water's cold. And so he's very sensitive to heat and cold. And so um, but yeah, he chose to do it and he chose to backstroke. That was how he adapted was instead of freestyle, you know. If he did backstroke, he could breathe, you have uh uh access to oxygen. Yeah. And then after that, the cycle and the run were great. Like he he executed those fantastically. And so I'm incredibly proud of just the fact that he chose to to do this one, to do the hard thing rather than uh he'll take the five-minute penalty. Actually, I think it was 10, because I think he went two waves later. He was still coordinating with the uh volunteer uh when the wave immediately after him went. Um but he's so much more proud, I think, than if he had skipped it. And and I think he still would have been proud, but I I think he knows how meaningful that was that he chose to do the hard thing and now he's ready for his next race, which will be an open water swim instead of pool. Um and then with my wife, I think it's fantastic. She amazes me every day. And actually, right behind me, the wall of laboo boos, those are uh how I bribed her into uh running uh last year when those had yeah, when those had blown up and gotten really big. She's like, Can I get a few? I was like, Let me sign you up for a few races and I'll buy you some. And then she's like, deal. And so we did that, and um like, okay, we're gonna set you up with the couch to 5k program. Like, I want you to see it through because this running, I don't think race day is the most important day. It's every single time that you show up. Like we talked about consistency. Um so I really wanted her to feel that the processes were the changes, you know. I think even 26.2, uh I think any healthy person could go and finish it, you know. Um if you have to alternate running, walking, whatever, like you'll get there eventually, right? Yes. But it it's it's the showing up, it's the choosing to improve week over week, day over day, just every step of the way. Um, and I and I think she saw that. And um things got a little hard on her last build. She was doing a 10k build, and she did really well on race day. Um, but I think she was a little bit burnt out. And so I was like, okay, if it's not your thing, um take your foot off the gas. Like, there's other ways to move, you know, let's let's find what you like. And then it was about a week ago that she was like, Okay, I want to do the holiday series with you, so I want to get back into building the consistency again. So she was ready to come back. And um, I'm gonna I want to help her with her nutrition side of it, specifically on days with long runs, if we do anything longer, but right now these are 5Ks and she just may prefer the distance versus some of these longer distances that can be more of a grind, and I think that's totally valid too. Um, and so uh I just want to find what she likes to do and help her find that. And um, if it's running, that's great. Um, I keep trying to get her to uh cycle with me, but uh she has no interest in hopping on a bike. And uh one day I'm hoping she'll want to go on for some rides with me and her boys because our three-year-old can ride a bike already without training wings or anything.

SPEAKER_01 36:07

Wow, that's amazing.

SPEAKER_00 36:08

Yeah, he's opposite of his big brother, where his big brother is very calculated, played everything very safe. This kid, go, go, go, like, doesn't think about it. If he scrapes a knee, gets a bruise, he bounces right back. And so it's it's just funny how they really are their own people, even if they're raised by the same parents in a very similar environment, like they're gonna be do they're gonna be.

SPEAKER_02 36:28

Yeah. So um, another cool thing, another cool thing that I I think is interesting about you is you know, like this whole time you've been it's you've been self-coached, right? You've been using uh uh the run uh AI plan uh through the whole thing.

SPEAKER_00 36:45

Yeah, um, so I started off. I I tried a few different things. The first time I had actually used um I did my first half marathon, um, it was basically the run walk method. Um thank you, Galloway. Um and I used it just because they were easy to find. Like I ended up ripping them off like the Run Disney website, and uh they're designed to be super, super accessible. I actually at that point could jog the whole distance at least, so I wasn't really alternating run walking, um, but I was using the structure and the kind of building, the really the building structure of the long run to build up to that half marathon. So I kind of followed a Galloway model for that first half marathon. And then after that, I tried a straight AI thing, and I'm actually not super, super fond of AI. Um, but um, I was like, let's just see what it does. And I did that for the Assembly half marathon, and it did an okay plan. And then I started using run, um, which may be a little controversial too, because I know some people are very against it. Um, some people, many people use it. Um, and so really I'll just speak to my experience with it. Um, so I think one there is AI in it, and it's usually these like summaries of uh things, like this is how your run went, or um, before your run, the weather's getting hotter, you did well on your last run. So it kind of does that. But as far as the plan, it's actually not an AI plan. It's designed by run coaches, and what it is is it's a set of defined parameters based off of what you said your current long run is, your um average weekly volume is um the intensity that you want to set. Um and so they're kind of preset plans that are just adjusting and scaling based off of uh your experience level. Yeah. And so um I use that and I've had a really good experience with it. I've had minor aches, you know, as you get in one plan. I think one thing that people should use, because I know some of the scrutiny with it is uh overuse injuries. People make their plan, they think they have to stick to it to a T. And uh that's one thing working with a coach will adjust super well for you. Like if you tell them, yeah, I'm I'm feeling shin splints, I'm feeling something, they'll scale it for you. Um run it as a know that you're feeling those things until you tell it. And so I I think it makes really, really good plans, but you have to be flexible and you have to use the features. Um, you can change the amount of speed work you're doing in a week. You can tell it you're not feeling 100%, and you can say for the next week, two weeks, three weeks, I want to um cut back my volume and speed work, or just my speed work. Um, and once I figured that out, I started performing better. Um, yeah. Versus just following it. This is the plan, it's absolute, and I have to do every single run as determined. And my half marathon plan, I started feeling some of those when I got closer to peak week. It's gonna happen. We're we're flesh and bone, you know, like our bodies, they're fragile. They're not gonna, they can't just withstand anything you throw at them. That changes based off of so many factors, whether it's illness or nutrition or age or um for women, time of the month, you know, there's there's so many different factors that it can impact your ability to perform and and to um put down really hard efforts safely. And so um learning to be flexible with it and use the adaptability features are what have allowed me to stay injury free, I think. Yeah, and so um that's one thing I'd advocate. If you are gonna use Runa, I can absolutely see there being risk for overuse injury because this sport has risk for overuse injury, right? Um at every single level.

SPEAKER_02 40:31

It's just forward motion, the same the same movements.

SPEAKER_00 40:34

Yeah, when I was a beginner, I I got it, and then you have elites, condomans. You know, he just had a uh I believe a hairline fracture uh after he set the American record in Chicago. Um, it happens at every single level. So be ready to adapt. Um and so um, yeah, I've had a really good experience with it, and I'll continue using it until I find something that works as well for me because I the create the plans that it creates I find have a lot of nuance. Um, I've I've ran kind of the structure through them and I've projected them, and I love that you can follow like almost a linear trajectory uh as your plan will build. Yeah, um, it has defined D load weeks. Um you can throw in B races, which I think is super helpful since I'm doing so many of them this year. I think I have like seven or eight of them that'll be on my path to two cities marathon, and then I have like two or three more races after that to wrap up the year. And so um it scales that like it'll give you a cutback before uh race and then reduce your speed work the following week or something like that if it's gonna be a longer race. If it's a 5k, your body, it'll treat it as a hard workout session. But if it's a half marathon, you might want a little bit more time to recover and it'll it'll factor for those things.

SPEAKER_02 41:51

Yeah. But what I was gonna say is like what I like is you know, not only do you use runner, but it sounds like you're kind of like, you know, you're you're tuned into your body and to how you you're feeling, into like what you need, but like you're you're you can trust the process and you can also trust how you're feeling when you need to back to back down. And I think that's something a lot of like especially beginner runners, like, you know, they just think like this is a plan. This is the plan I gotta follow. But it's so important to like learn what your body is telling you. And I think you've done a great job of that. When did that kind of start happening for you? When did you start feeling like you were starting to key into your body a little bit and you could trust those those keys that it was giving you?

SPEAKER_00 42:35

Yeah, um, I would say really the first plan that I started using Runna because I was running into some overuse injuries early on. Um, maybe not early on. It was, I must have started around I want to say June or July. And it was by like late August I could feel it. And I was stacking a lot of things too, because I was doing my first front mare or my first front triathlon too. So I was training pretty hard across the board. Um and um I realized I just I had to take something off. So like just adjusting some speed workouts because I responded fine to to conversational pace runs, but when I had two speed workouts with cycling and swimming and strengths and everything, um, I was not recovering as well as I should have. And so that was when I started to learn the process of uh they say your body whispers before it screams, or you know, uh kind of a runner's uh saying, and um so I decided to do that because I would rather I'd rather be slowed down or I'd rather cut the speed session um or even skip a run if needed, which I tend to be more on the side of I'll adapt it and skip the speed session and I'll still get the volume in. But if I absolutely have to, I would skip a run. Um I I just don't want to be sidelined because I I made a bad call. And so um yeah, I the more that I've done it, I think if you are gonna self coach, you really have. To get in tune and you have to start to put your ego aside as well. Um, and you can't just try to power through everything. And maybe you wake up and you you have that feeling. You get out there, you run your first smile, you're warmed up, but you can feel that this is gonna hurt or something, like it's just not feeling right. Um, you have to think through the other side, you know, is am I gonna have enough positive adaptation from this one run to offset the possible negative adaptation that could happen from this one run um and and make the smart call. And so um, I think I had two weeks on my last half marathon build where I just cut out speed work entirely just because I could feel those aches creeping in. I felt fine. And that's part of it. I felt fine when I did the uh lower intensity stuff. So if I wasn't responding well to that, if I still had those bad aches the day after, I would have cut down volume as well. But since I was responding fine to those, it was just speed sessions. I chose to cut those out for a couple weeks. Um and and that allowed me to get to the starting line healthy, tapered, and put down a really good time. And so I just think you really need to, if you will, self-coach with a tool like runner or something like that. Uh even any of the books, if you follow Higdon, you follow Fitz, you know, things like that, you it's gonna be uh you have to listen to your body because um those are plans and um you may I you you just have to start be realistic with what your body's capable of at this point, and um because if you try to do too much, you're not just gonna force adaptation, you're gonna force injury. Your body has to be recovering between sessions and you uh so you can stay out there, otherwise you won't have the positive benefits that you want to. You're gonna end up sidelined. And so um that's what I don't want to do. And so uh yeah.

SPEAKER_02 45:50

Yeah, because you mentioned you know, you don't want to get sidelined because this is not just something where you're chasing performance, you're also chase chasing health and longevity, and you want to be able to stay out on the roads because you want to be doing Iron Man's with your son when he's older, you know, like you you know, this is way more uh seems like you know, running for you is way more than just performance. It's about you know showing up for the people you love.

SPEAKER_00 46:16

Yeah, absolutely. I if I couldn't race ever again in my life, I would still get out there and run because I I love getting out there and running. Um I do love racing as well, and it's and uh especially having certain goals, trying to win my age group, um, trying to work towards a Boston qualifier, uh, things like that. I think it's so much fun. I love the community. Uh, we've got a really, really great community out here in the faces. Since I've been showing up more, they've you see how many people show up all the time too, and you you just start to click. Um, but yeah, the goal is longevity and just to stay in the sport as long as I can and um hopefully keep PRing through my 30s, my forties. And if you know no one beats uh biology, and so if I start slowing down, then I want to go out there and still run what times I can in my 50s, my sixties, seventies, and um just have fun with it, be consistent and um and enjoy it. Like it really I do love it, and that's what took me from it being a weight loss thing to having these performance goals was um I fell in love with running along the way. Uh, and so that's what keeps me going out there. That modeling behaviors for my kids, uh hopefully being able to join them. We're we're finally starting to do some stuff together too. Like yesterday, uh my son had a triathlon session assigned by his coach uh because they had we had a local triathlon uh an adult age ones that uh the coaches were gonna be at. And so they canceled practice and the kids uh were given a workout. And so I had a six-mile easy run. So I did the first four and a half alone. He joined me for the back one and a half that his coach had assigned, and then we went and cycled six miles, and uh it was super fun now that we're getting to do all this stuff together, and um I want to keep doing that forever, really, as long as long as we can. Of course, they're gonna become their own people. Um, but I'm enjoying every second of it.

SPEAKER_02 48:10

Yeah, no, that's that's awesome. And I think um, you know, if you continue to make that a space of joy for the kids, like they'll keep wanting to chase it, uh and keep wanting to come with you, like making it a bonding space because my you know, that's that's exactly how I got started was my mom was a a big marathoner and runner. And when I was six years old, I ran my first 5k. And uh I I felt sick to go on a run with her, and then you know, we we had a great time, and then we would continue to run together growing up, and uh even when I was in college, we would do trail runs, and so like it's it's like continuing to give that space to them and give them something to to bond with you is is amazing. And I I love to see your videos that you post with them on Strava and on your uh on your stories because I'm like that's what I want to be someday. I want to be that dad taking my like seven-year-old kid on the end of my run and on some bike rides and and uh and adventures.

SPEAKER_00 49:09

So yeah, yeah. I I would love to post them more. I try not to though, because it's the internet and things like that. And I think they should get a say in it uh in their online uh presence and everything, and so I don't post them as much on social media. I would post them every single day if I felt uh I could, but um, I better be said I absolutely love it, yeah. But I absolutely love it, and they bring me so much joy, and that that's why that's a real old current cycle, and that's why my oldest is is doing this. Like they love the space, and it's not like I'm grinding them hard, and you have to show up and do all these things. Um, we make it a super fun space, and it's often in the mornings. I train in the mornings, I'll usually wrap up, then I'll go do something with my kids that's lower intensity, almost a cooldown in a sense, and then um our afternoons, we're a big gaming family, and so I'm sure you could tell by all the plushies back there. Yeah. Um, we actually, you know, people have their opinions about video games as well, but for us, like it is a super fun way to bond. It's recovery because after you have a hard session, right? You need to let your body recover. So let's do something low intensity inside and and have some fun. And so um, it's not like a you don't game till you do your training, it's just more of a we train in the mornings and we play games in the evenings and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_02 50:25

And so it's it's all a joy space. There's not not one is punishment for another, you know what I mean? It's just like yeah.

SPEAKER_00 50:32

And I don't want to foster that either, you know. Like, I don't want to create this, it's a competition between them, or oh, I have to go do this run before I can game. It's just that is not how we talked about it at all. It's just uh we know that he's in tri-club right now, he has races coming up, and so it's generally practice, but then he'll ask me, can we go on a ride this morning and things like that uh once I come in for my run? And so we'll go for a ride and then uh have lunch and then cool down. That's usually the weekends. Weekdays are very busy, but um yeah, it's it's all from a place of love and joy, and that's that's what I want to share with them is just movements fun. And even when you think about like these sports, endurance sports, and you think of childhood summers. For me, I think of swimming with my friends, I think of going on bike rides, I think of running around and doing all this stuff, and that's what these sports are. Yeah, it really should be that fun. It's swimming, it's biking, it's running. It's these are super fun things to do, fun ways to move your body, and so they should be a joy, they should they can be a grind, you know, especially when you start chasing performance at their age, though. It's uh we try to make it just about joy and just just having fun.

SPEAKER_02 51:38

Yeah, that's awesome. And then going back to you, you know, you've had this big transformation, you know. You you were starting this journey just as someone who wanted to get fit and and and make a promise to yourself, and now you know, you're just like me, you're a runner, you know what I mean? Like a run nerd is like what I like to call it. You love the space, you love chasing these things. Um, and when you're out there and let's say you're in a hard session, it's not necessarily something injury related, you're just like, you know, tired, hard getting through reps, hard getting through a long run. Um, do you ever think about like think in in your head of like, you know, I the person who I was is the reason I'm doing this? And like I I want to show up for him. I'm gonna push through these reps because I want to, you know, I want to make continue making that promise to myself.

SPEAKER_00 52:28

Yes and no. So I think the first time I really thought about my old self and compared that to who I had become was that first half marathon. That half marathon, like that was the most emotional I've ever been at the finish line and and in the car ride home um with my wife, and like I had genuinely teared up, and I was just like, can't believe like I just ran 13.18 minute miles, you know. That's um that was just absurd to me at the time. And um so that's the first time I just looked at like where I had come and and where I'm at. Now when I hit those hard sessions, it's more of a reminder of you've been here, you've been uncomfortable and you've grown from it, you know. And again, not if it's injury related or you know, feeling tender and pain or something like that, but if you were just talking my heart rate's cranked up and I've got one last interval, or I've got a handful of intervals that I know are gonna hurt, um just because I'm digging deep. Like that's what I tell myself is you've been here before and it's supposed to be hard. That's what's gonna change you. It's supposed to be hard. Um, and then just reminding myself that that has a purpose and that big things come from that. Um, that's what helps me get through those sessions. And that's what helped me get through that last mile of that uh half marathon was that was the mantra I kept telling myself is this is an all-out race effort. It is supposed to be hard, you know. Um, and and just reminding myself that yes, this is uncomfortable. That is by design because I'm trying to do something I've never done before and I'm trying to grow from this. Um, and and I to I find a lot of solace in that, and just um knowing that we can be okay with being uncomfortable, we can work through that, that our mind is super powerful, our bodies are and and that will drive our bodies to be super powerful. Um, you know, I you can't fake fitness, you have a ceiling, obviously, and everything like that. Um, I can't just go out there and go run a 120 half marathon right now, but I can keep chipping away, um, doing all the things that I can to improve. Um, and that's gonna take a lot of hard work, and that's the this the difference between my first year where I really focused on how far I could go in building up to my first uh half marathon and then building up to my first marathon versus years like two and three that I've been into running. Um getting fast is very hard. Building up the distance is is hard in a different way. You keep showing up though, and and you can take your foot off the gas and slow things down, let your heart rate come down, things like that. Getting hard is such hard or getting fast is such hard work. Um and um so that's something I've had to learn to to navigate differently because that first year I felt good most of the time. Almost everything was conversational paced, and oh, I love this, like this is yeah, your heart rate gets up to your maybe your zone twos and threes and stuff like that, but you're taking it easy on yourself deliberately. But then when you start working in these uh quality sessions that are designed just to wreck you in a sense, uh so you can push your BO2 max and things like that. Um it it is genuinely uncomfortable at times, but um, I've learned to find not just not just being able to get through it, but like to find some joy in it too. I prefer tempo runs to uh interval runs. I can hold hard paces for a long time. Like it's funny because I just had an interval, it was 1k repeats at 605 per mile, which is what I ran my last 5k in. It is easier for me to hold that pace for this 5k steady rather than repeat it and take these brakes. Oh, really? Hold the rate go down. I hate it. Yeah, I would rather hold it for 5k straight. And so, um, but there's adaptation in the in the intervals too. Like you want to train your heart rate to kind of go back down and then crank it back up. It's it's intentional. Um, and so that's something that I'm learning to uh respect and to uh find some joy in it too, because I I do uh like those hard sessions as well, and I I take so much pride in them after they're done, and I go back and I look at my average pace per rep. And um just okay, I never would have thought I would see a leading five before on any of these numbers, and then there it is, and so it's just it's cool, and I I want to keep chipping away, and so I know some days are gonna be hard, and that's okay. Do the hard work. Um listen to your body, of course, but do the hard work and um be consistent and and incredible things will happen.

SPEAKER_02 56:50

For sure. I uh actually my I had a hard session on Thursday, no Friday, and it was uh uh hill hill repeats and it was uh yeah, going up, and like heart rate was skyrocketing to 191, and then you know walk jog back down, go down to like 130, and it's just that you know, that's it's tough, like because yeah, your heart rate gets down to 130, and you're just like, I really don't want to get it back up to 190 again. I'd really rather just go home. But it's you know, that mental talk of like I my mental the thing I tell myself is um the only person who can stop you right now is you, like you know, like you can also continue to keep going, but like just keep going and and don't be the one who stops you, you know, because if you stop here now, you might stop it so later when it matters, you know.

SPEAKER_00 57:46

So yeah, for sure, for sure. Um yeah, and so uh, and funny that you mentioned hills because I mentioned when I when I bonked, like I it was totally rolling hills, things like that, that really got my heart rate going. So, and that's one thing too with uh this sport is learn to adapt. When you keep seeing your butt get kicked by hills, go hit the hills. They know your time to do it. And so uh every Sunday I've been going to that park that was where I really started seeing my cardiac drift get away from me. Um, and so most of them are conversational pace runs. Um, but I know that these hill like these some of them are pretty, pretty long and steep. Um even when you're taking that easy effort, you're not doing hill repeats, like you're you're getting it in your legs, and there's gonna be those benefits. Uh yeah. And and I've noticed it on my races, like I'm no longer afraid of those hills, and um I've got kind of more uh tactic, I guess I would say when I hit them and everything, and how to um cut a little bit as I'm climbing up them, and then how to take the free speed going down the other side. I've gotten a lot better at that instead of just trying to lock on to a steady pace and and knowing that it's okay to back off here uh as you're about to hit the climb, because you're gonna make up for it a bit. It's I think it's something like sixty percent of uh uh efficiency that you get back on the downhill. So like climbing up, if that was a hundred percent um that you lose obviously you're not losing hundred percent, but what you lose is about would be a hundred percent. You get about sixty percent of that back on the back side, roughly. It's not exactly equal, um, but you can make up a good chunk of it. And so um that's kind of how I treat it. And I all attack the downhills pretty hard now. When a lot of people are like, we just ran uphill, now I need to collect my heart rate. It's like, no, we're we're still moving. And so um, I think that's been something that's helped me race better. And that half marathon had this this one overpass that was just brutal, and you hit it twice. You hit it once on your way out, uh, and then once on your way back, and um it ended up being a spot that I performed really well on the way back. Uh yeah, it it was it was really fun. That's right after that overpass is when I caught up to the 130 pacers, and so um it was pretty cool. And so I felt the changes, I think, showing up to those environments because my neighborhood is flat as a pancake, really flat. Like we're talking like I don't know, I think my watch tracks it at like five feet of elevation uh change over the course of a 5k loop.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:22

Like it is nuts, it's which is not common, not common for California. Y'all do have some hills out there.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:27

We have hills. Um, we for sure have hills, but we have a lot of flatland too, uh, especially in what's called the Central Valley, um, which is right where I'm located. Uh if you take a map of California for your finger right in the middle, that's pretty much where I'm at. Okay, so we've got San Francisco, which is super hilly three hours north. Um, it's the San Joaquin Valley, so we're surrounded by mountains, but within the valley itself, it is flat. And um, so I I'll hit hills where I can. And I guess not exclusively, because we do have Yosemite very close. It's about an hour drive. Um but the city itself where I live, like it is incredibly flat. And so um you have to go find them because I knew I kept getting my butt whooped by him and I wasn't gonna race well if that kept happening. And so um I made him a part of my plan. I hit every long run uh there and I try to keep my heart rate at a certain range unless I have race-based intervals. And um, at first that was very intimidating to hit certain race pace intervals in the hill in the environment, but then um if that's what's gonna be on race day, that's what it's gonna be anyway. So just go out there and do it. And so I've started tackling those on the same hills.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:33

Yeah. I find the same uh the same thing. Like I I started incorporating hills in like winter of twenty two thousand twenty-four, and that's when I used Rada for winter through spring of twenty five and um uh and then I went for a coach for my sub four and beyond. So, but when I did my when I did the um hills, like because it would prescribe a lot of hills, and um at first I was just like, I hate these workouts, yeah. They're so they're so hard. And um, but then I ran a half uh marathon in San Marcos that year, and I was hoping for sub 140 and this the race was like a rolling hill race the entire way. It was a circle, it was a circle that was all rolling hills, and people were just dying on those hills, like they you like they would fall off behind me, and I would chuck another one and check another one, and I kept my paces in the 730s, you know, right there, and I was like, I feel good. I was like, nice, and it was like it's all these hills that like you know that I tackled, and I ran 138, and I was like, Love it, you know, like let's go. So the hills are it's a secret unlock for sure.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:43

Yeah, there's there's magic in the hills for sure. Um, and and congratulations on your sub four and your sub-20.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:49

That is yeah, thank you. The sub four is great, but that sub 20, I know that is such a hard goal to chase, and it feels I think honestly, the sub-25k, the feeling after it was so much better than the sub-4 marathon. Like, I believe it because the sub four marathon, it was more like the first two races, I didn't know what I was doing the first two tries at sub-4, and like I didn't have the fueling down, I didn't have the you know, the training wasn't as dialed, and so I was just like, well, I'm just not doing this right. And then when I got a coach, I was like, that that really was able to like help guide me in in all of those facets. And so when I ran sub four, I'm like, okay, like now I know what I'm doing in space. That's all it really was. I was like, now let's see how far we can take this. But like with the sub-20, I was just like, I don't feel like I can ever break it. It was like, can I get this under 20 minutes ever? And then you know, finally in Kerrville, I did 1950 and I was like, all right, let's go. Like, and that that feeling when I finished crossed the finish line was just like, Oh my god.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:55

Yeah, and then remember you telling me about the uh the week before when you had first attempted it, and I think the we said the race coordinators, uh yeah, they did yeah, they didn't have a like uh a sign at one of the first turns in the race.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:09

Um and so every literally everyone went right when they should have gone left. And um, I was starting to go right, but in my head, I was like, I don't think that's right because I've run this course before, but everyone else was, so I started going that way, and then I asked someone on course, like, is this where we're supposed to go? And they're like, like one of the persons that was like guiding, and she was like, I don't know. And I was like, What? And so someone came and like touched, you know, touched me on my shoulder, it was one of my friends, and she was like, We gotta go that way. And so I was like, Okay, so I followed her, and then I was doing well, and that was the I was on the core on course the rest of the way, yeah. Uh, and then my the last like 400 meters, my shoe came untied, and uh I was trying I was trying to run through that, and then it my shoe fell off, and I was like, That's a vapor fly, I'm not losing that shoe. So yeah, you know, put it back on and tied it up and lick my wounds for a 2011. But I was like, I was like, if if you could hit a 2011, like sub 20 is there.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:06

That's a lot of action for a 2011 for sure.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:08

Yeah, so I was like, I got it, but I was like, I still want to go prove it. So I lined up the very next week and got it. So nice.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:15

That's what's fun about 5K's too, is you know, they don't have this recovery process they're gonna have after a full marathon, and so you can get out there and try it again the following week. I had a similar uh no shoe coming off, but I I went off course on a half marathon back in March. And um, luckily I was using the app that it was called Racetroy, where your friends and family could uh track your performance uh or where you're at during the run, and they can send you cheers. Yeah, and it ended up being like a net like extra quarter mile that I went off course, and it was just for most of the race, we were following the trail signs. And at this one point they used cones to kind of block off one, but I followed the trail signs, and so um I went off, and the app actually told me it we think you're off course, and then I was like, Oh shoot! So I flipped around. Um, and so that was a frustrating race, but it was just one of those opportunities too of like just when you're racing, it's hard to think a little bit sometimes, you know, when you're flying and you're trying to keep your your redlining and you're you're trying to make these decisions. So it helped me be kind of cognizant too. Don't just zone out and get into music or like whatever, like how to be aware, read the course, and if you have to take an extra second, like to determine which way you should go, just do it because it that second could save you minutes.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:32

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I was like, it's better to take that one second to read the signs than like run half a mile or something off course, and then you're like, oh no.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:41

I I got lucky because I think the app notified me. I think it was like almost exactly 0.12 miles, so it was like a quarter mile net uh that added on. Um, and I would have done I did pretty well in the race. I got like 15th in the age group, I think. Um but I would have been top 10 in that one, and it was it's one of the bigger races in the valley that's it's their spring classic, and then they have they basically have two half marathons. One this one is trail, the other one is road. Um, and so this was their kind of trail premiere event of the spring. And oh man, I was open to I actually did have a race PR, but not like uh I know I ran for uh faster half marathons. Like during my full marathon, I ran a half marathon quicker than that race. And trail's different, it's technical. Um, you're gonna have a lot of rolling hills, things like that. But I really wanted to set a half marathon PR there. Didn't went off course, really frustrating day. My wife ran her first 10k that day and had a fantastic race. Like this is like yeah, we were not expecting this. Like, we get to the finish line and she's like, How'd you do? Like, I'm frustrated. Like, I I recovered well and I had a pretty good race, but like I went off course, and um it was the hottest day of the year so far. Like it was March, so like you have January, February, really cool, and it just got hot that weekend, and like I felt it. I trained before the sun's up, and so like the sun beating down on me, like it just I didn't feel great this race, and um she was like, Oh, I I was I did great, like I was scared of my first 10k, and like, yeah, there were rolling hills, but I I tackled them like we talked about because you told me like how to take them, and um, she was super proud, and I was like, Okay, that's great. Like, uh I'm actually really proud that you're proud. And so I think yeah, um, I think I was more proud of her performance than mine for sure. Like, my takeaway from that day was like she can do it, like you know, and I think that was her first confidence builder too. And then she's also ran into some frustrating ones since where you want to go out there and you want to PR every race, and so she uh has had some 5Ks who were like, I sh I thought I was gonna do better. And she's like, I don't like that feeling when you don't get there. And I was like, it's okay, you not every day is gonna be your day, but that day that was her day, and then she ended up bidding her time at the next one, which was the California classic half that I had done. Uh, she did the 10K for that as well. Um, and yeah, she set a really big 10k PR for her and uh had a good race.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:58

That's awesome, and that's like the thing too of like, you know, it's not always just like like when when it when a day goes bad, it's important to stay in the moment and be proud of those around you and kind of still show up for those around you, even when it wasn't your day. So that's like that's a great lesson to learn.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:14

Yeah, and even with that one, like I had never gone in a race. I had my uh half marathon PR was 14046, it was the 070 half marathon almost a year prior, because I didn't do any real B races. I did a couple like holiday 5Ks and things like that around town, but I had strictly built up to the uh two cities marathon. Um, and so it had been like a solid year almost uh since I had ran a half race, and it was still a PR. Um but man, I felt I had a lot left in there. But at the same time, it's like you just ran a PR and you added an extra quarter mile, and like you had all these circumstances that you weren't ready for, and um be proud of it. It's okay, your expectation was higher, but we're not always gonna execute and kind of had to go back to that same frame of mind that I did with Two Cities Marathon when I uh when I bonked at mile 22. Um just even at the end of that, I ran a 328-19, you know. Like that that's a good time, and so just take it in, enjoy it. It didn't go how you expected. That doesn't mean there's not a lot to be proud of, too. And you'll you'll get a chance to get hit the course again, and so um, and that's the goal. Uh I I learned from both of those races, and there are things I'm gonna apply going forward, and I cannot wait to get back on the course for Two Cities Marathon again. And yeah, um, part of this long build that I'm doing is part of that by design. Um, I had built up for the half marathon to about 45-ish miles per week. Um tapered, had the race day, did a kind of a three-week reverse taper to get back into my um regular weekly volume. And then this time I'm gonna peak at about 55 miles a week is the goal. Um, so that's a lot better than the 41. And the 41 was because that's at the time what I could build to safely. Um, yeah. I had a base of about 25 miles per week going into that build, and so um I want to be conservative, not injure myself because longevity is a goal. And this time 55 feels super, super tangible. Like I said, I climbed up to 45 for that half marathon, so I want to build off of what I had built up to there. Um peak at 55 and uh and go run my race. I think having a bigger aerobic base, just more miles under my legs, doing a 24-week instead of an 18-week build, um, and then just feeling smarter, like I said, targeting a higher um carb intake. Uh, like I said, I did 60 grams of carbs per hour, and I'm I'm a pretty tall guy, um, and maybe not as small as your average runner or that typical runner's build, I should say, because I think runners comes in all shapes and sizes, but um, and so I'm a big guy, and so I I need to feel like it too. And so um that's how I'm gonna approach race day, is I'm gonna really shoot for that between 80 and 100 or so grams of carbs per hour, um and and see how that goes.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:09

Nice, yeah. I did uh I actually just switched up my gel and fueling performance to try to hit that 100 mark. I got uh uh blank sports nutrition. So um they're they're out of Canada and they're got it's like customizable, so you can customize the flavor and all this and that. So uh, but I did 50 grams of carbs for it. So each gel is 50. So I'm hop hoping to do, I guess that's 100 grams of carbs per hour. So yeah, two does an hour.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:35

Yeah, that makes it easy uh to calculate too, because just every half hour you can set a timer, re loop it, and then there you go. So that's pretty neat.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:43

Yeah, what are you using?

SPEAKER_00 1:12:45

Uh these days I've been using Martin, and uh what got me there was they added a nutrition planner, and I like different tools where you can plug in uh in this. You can actually load your GPX file so it'll take the elevation profile. Oh wow, which is pretty cool for your race. Yeah. Um, so you can do that, and you can select what products you want to use, if you want to use their caffeinated products as well, or if you just want to stick to the non-caffeinated stuff, um, put in your height, your weight, your age, your the distance, which if you're doing a GPX file, it'll have that. Um and what else? There's nothing that I'm something I'm forgetting. I oh, your estimated finish time. Um wow. Yeah, so whatever time you're training for, you put all this in, and it'll actually give you a nutrition planner. And I did that for a Cal Classic half, and um, it worked out really well. I tried the drink mix for my first time, which was interesting because I've done gels, but I've never done like a drink mix that it was a lot, like 320 calories, and you you're slamming this like almost a liter of water before actually. I think it was like 20 ounces or something, but you're still slamming a bunch of water with this mix in it first. My stomach responded super well to everything that day, though. Wow, um I want to yeah, whatever I do, as long as my stomach feels that good, like I'm all in because I had zero issues. Um I had to pee before the race, which uh they they they never have enough fortabodies for those, it seems like. Uh the line was crazy, so I think that was my only uh bathroom issue was trying to get to that before the gun. Um, but yeah, no other issues while I was running. So that's uh all that you can really ask for on race day is your fuel and your stomach feels good. Yeah. So uh yeah, that worked out well. So I think I'm gonna do that. Although uh I always keep my options open. I'm not gonna try anything new on race day, but you know, during my build and everything, I'll experiment a little bit with different brands then, and that's what got me onto runner, I think, or uh onto uh Martin. I was using uh Huma before that, and what I didn't like was all the variety packs, and it's hard to get like a lot of one specific flavor or something that plays well. Um, and then I responded better to some flavors than others and stuff, and so I I kind of ditched that, and then I liked the actual consistency of Martin. Um, it's weird at first because it is more like a jello gelatinous gel instead of like uh a puree, like a lot of the other gels that I had tried at that point. Um and that allows you to get more of it out of it without uh it kind of sticks to itself. So like it um when you kind of uh rip it and start swerping it down, uh I think you can get more of it out of the container than some of the other ones. It's less sticky mess. And so it's it's worked out well for me so far.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:37

Yeah. Yeah, I liked Morton. I used Morton on my sub for, and I never had a problem with it. I just wanted to try, you know, so different things, but that's cool about the uh the nutrition planner. That's dialed. That's awesome.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:50

Yeah, and they do it for running, cycling, and triathlon. Uh so you can tell it your race, your distance, uh, if there is a GPX file, if it's like a cycling race or a running race. Uh I don't know how you do it for triathlon. I haven't I haven't played with it to see if you can put both the running and the cycling course. Um but yeah, you just tell it your distances, your estimated finish times and all that, and it'll create a strategy for you there. And so uh and and it'll actually give you the breakdown. It's not like, okay, here, go do this. Like it'll actually tell you this many uh grams of carbs per hour, this much sodium per hour. Um, and it shows you how it used your body weight to factor that. And so um yeah, I felt it worked out super well for California Classic Half, and I'll give it a go again at Two Cities Marathon.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:36

Awesome. Well, Nico, we've been talking for over an hour at this point, so I'm gonna probably wrap this up. But this has been I've I I've loved being able to kind of nerd out on running and hear your story, and and like you've been super inspiring to me since I started following you in January. So um keep it up. But the first last question that I was gonna ask you is um for someone who you know is where you were, you know, like trying to figure out how to change their, you know, to change their life, you know, to go from somewhere where they're not happy to a place of fitness and and chase something, what would you tell them uh what what would what should be their first step?

SPEAKER_00 1:17:20

First step, because I wouldn't even say it's running specifically, I would say gosh, it sounds generic, but to start, you know, experiment, find the way that you like to move your body and it it's not gonna it doesn't have to be the same as the person next to you or these other people in your life. Maybe you do want it to be and you want to go join them for runs or do local 5Ks or something. Maybe you want to roller skate around the park or something. Like uh there's this guy that he's out there almost every single Sunday on like these big like it's rollerblades, but they have really big wheels so we can handle like trails and stuff more than just like your regular inline skates. And um he's having a party every single time he's out there. So like find find a way that move that works for you. Um and have a plan and be consistent. I think the plan is so important. It just it helps with accountability. Um, and and that's where the change happens when you just keep showing up. Um, you don't give yourself the excuses of, well, I just don't feel like it today. It's different if you're nursing an injury. Like that's that's for sure, that's a part of the plan is to adapt and to take care of that. But um, you know, I had a lot of motivation when I first started, um, between my family, me not feeling comfortable with my body, things like that. But that motivation isn't what keeps me going now. It's just it's routine and it's a habit. And it's I wake up and I go do my workout, whether it's a run or strength training or swim that day or whatever it is, um it's as simple as as getting up and putting on my shoes, or as it's as routine as brushing my teeth every day. Like it's just something that I do. And um, it it takes a while to get there, and there are gonna be days that you're gonna want to talk yourself out of it. But just try. And I I I bet if you go out there and you take those first steps, you'll cover your distance that you're supposed to that day, or maybe you cover half of it, and that's all that you felt like you had in you that day, but you did a lot better than not doing any of it. Um, and so um have fun, like make movement fun. We talked about that as well. Um, I I think that's a part of it. You have to love it uh to the point where you can show up every day. So find the ways to move that you love and that you'll keep showing up, have a plan, have the time. If that's a community that keeps you going, or if you're an introvert and you prefer to train alone, or whatever, whatever it is, do it your way, own it, be consistent.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:45

Awesome. Well, Nico, thank you so much again for coming on uh and for and for agreeing to to share your story because I I've uh been following you for a while, like I said. I wanted to get you on. This has been great. Uh have fun training this uh this summer and early fall, and good luck at two cities.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:03

Yeah, it's a pleasure, Sam. Um, I'm really glad we got to connect and I I uh we'll keep in touch on the socials like we like we always do for sure.